Talk:Odann

New topics

History

Okay, at the moment I would say there are hte following issues:

• Period 500 BCE to Secote conquest is lacking
• Middle age is a bit vague, with large jumps between events
• Recent history is missing
• 61 and 62 should be part of Odann for a while. Fiobha and Laora are mentionned, and there are some issues!
  • Tvariken has: "Fiobhan War of 1635-38 saw Odann complete its expansion to the sea"
  • Odann's page says: "Adhamh II in 1602 waged war against the petty kingdoms to the northwest of Odann. Adhamh declared his intent to extend the boundaries of the Sacred Kingdom to the sea. The period following the conquest of Fiobha and Laora is viewed as a critical turning point of Odann, making it a coastal nation and dramatically shifting the economy and trade."
  • In this context, I would say Fiobha is 62 and Laora is 61. The time frame appears similar for both, and would sort of work with the Quènian-Odannaigh War of 1629-34. However, my assumption was that this latter war was fought against an Odann that was already a non negligible maritime and commercial power, so it would seem strange that it achieved that status just after having gained access to the sea. I'd like to have at least 61 and part of the current litoral (roughly all the Daugh river) already owned by Odann since the mid 16th century. Adhamh (the first) could have conquered the region (north-west) together with defeating the Seras from the north-east, that would make him even more significant, and Odann would have the time to build a strong commercial clout to compete with Quènie.

--Seb (talk) 02:18, 8 July 2015 (BST)

Taking each point in turn:

• 1) Agreed - will need to consider what could have been happening at the time.
• 2) The middle ages are still a work in progress: I am taking each section in turn and have just reached the emergence of the Clairhains. I do intend to plug those gaps.
• 3) Yes, and this will be addressed in turn.
• 4) This whole section seems contradictory in places, and I agree that Odann needs to have become a serious maritime power earlier than shown at present. I am working on the rise of Liam mac Clairhain at the moment; potentially he or his son could have captured #61 and the area around Clachan during the middle to late 1400s in a north-westward push from Rath, which is a kind of forward advance point. The reference to the Fiobhan War in the piece on Tvariken (arising from me making the same inference as you) can be readily retconned. When I have some time later today I'll turn the pieces around and see how they fit together.

--Michael-on-Ryde (talk) 03:15, 8 July 2015 (BST)

All good MoR. Also:

• Odann rises in prosperity during the montalbian empire: slave trade and metals from the uplands main reason.

--Seb (talk) 08:16, 8 July 2015 (BST)

• "In 1578 Adhamh’s son Liam succeeded his father, which was very rare for previous kings" - Why is it "rare"? Looks like a leftover from Steven, as it sounds such succession was normal before in the updated version. --Seb (talk) 02:29, 9 July 2015 (BST)
• It is a leftover; I will be looking at this period later today to deal with the conflicts along the Arcedian coast, and that reference will be removed as a result. --Michael-on-Ryde (talk) 04:55, 9 July 2015 (BST)

Still looking good! One concern at the moment: Diothún. I'm not sure why Odann would claim it in 1641 when there is little thing of interest on that island, even in the relatively hospitable corner. I think it may fall de facto into the Odannaigh sphere of influence in northern Ascesia, with an actual formalised claim later (perhaps as part of the Seranian Treaties). I think it would be too early, given the new timeline of Seranian colonisation, for Odann to worry about controlling the Great Belt route. --Seb (talk) 01:52, 17 July 2015 (BST)

Agreed, that's a point that I didn't pick up. I'll look at this later today with a view to moving it back to a more realistic timeframe. --Michael-on-Ryde (talk) 06:29, 17 July 2015 (BST)

Place names

A few suggestions, some actual, some worked-up: Ardaill – An Cuas – Sleáin – Tulach Mór – Baile na Sheisear – Seanfhoinse – Teach Bán – Coill na Mairbh – Thintrí – Sruthdearg – Na Creaga – Cill Fhéich – Iorras – an Rinn – Maothail – Fionnúir – An Tearmann – Mucais – Cuinche – Sáile – an Urnaí – Pártraí – Eónshagairt. --Michael-on-Ryde (talk) 15:50, 10 July 2015 (BST)

Sorority

MoR why did you remove the term "lay sorority" I made for the previously named holy council? I though it would make sense to have a clerical council named sorority. The "lay" means this sorority addresses secular matter, not that it's made of lay people. --Seb (talk) 09:54, 5 July 2015 (BST)

For consistency's sake, no more. Now that I see your reasoning, I will revert and expand appropriately in the proper time period. --Michael-on-Ryde (talk) 11:12, 5 July 2015 (BST)

Update

I have decided it is time to update Odann a bit to keep pace with the developments in the rest of Messenia. I'm going to keep it mostly as is, extending on what Steven already created. Some minor changes will take place, for example removing the most "democratic" elements in the government. Comments and suggestions welcome! --Seb (talk) 03:28, 29 June 2015 (BST)

I may reduce Odann's population based on the below talk, but it will stay at least 60 million. --Seb (talk) 03:44, 29 June 2015 (BST)

Sounds good; I know I've brought in some odds and ends over time in this area, and I'll blend them in as we go. --Michael-on-Ryde (talk) 04:15, 29 June 2015 (BST)

Feel free to edit things in too, I think it's important that given Odann's role as a GP it has a good up to date page! --Seb (talk) 04:32, 29 June 2015 (BST)

Effected or planned changes:

• Pushed back nuclear weapon to early 1990s; if Odann is stagnating post Long war more than others, it doesn't make sense to me it would reproduce the Savamo-Zepnish achievement so soon afterwards.
• General council is elected by non-noble land-owners, i.e. a small group. Most people excluded from voting.

Older topics

Secote timeline

Hey Steven, the timeline of the Secote-related history is completely off the marks :) The Secotes conquers the Savamese area in the 780-790s, so Odann should not fall too long after that. Furthermore, the Secote empire ends in 1114. There might be room for a Secote-led state to survive a bit, but it seems unlikely until the late 1300s... --Seb 00:49, 10 January 2012 (GMT)

Geography

Steven, you say in your geographical section that Odann is a flat country "not rising above 300 metre". Well, this is not the case :) Here is a map I quickly assembled of Odann (click on it for higher res):

Each coloured area represent 250 metres in elevation, so the greenest colour is 0 to 250 metres and the darker brown, in the very bottom of the image is 1500+ metres. It shows that Odann is mostly above 500 metres in altitude, even reaching above 1,000 metres in 3 different area. Doesn't mean the geography is particularly sharp, but it's more rising plains, hills and low mountains than alluvial plains (the gradiant between northern and southern germany could be an exemple, I guess). Execept of course the coastal plain on your cost and the southern alluvial plain of the river that marks your southern border (note, raw rivers from FT, not very beautifull). --Seb 22:18, 1 August 2011 (BST)

And on that subject, if Odann is more elevated its population should be that bit more sparse; 1010/sq mi (about the same as Bangladesh) seems way too high given that more low-lying Savam has 442/sq mi (similar to Switzerland and I'd say also too high) --Michael-on-Ryde 12:29, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

I hadn't realised, but yes the population density is really high. The rising terrain does not mean there's no one, but a density similar to a country like Bangladesh is off the mark... A European density would be good, possibly taking southern Germany or Austria as examples. And MoR is right that Odann's probably less dense than Savam.

As for Savam, MoR, it is much more flatter than Odann, lies in the same climate zone as France/Germany and has a considerable river systems that supplies large alluvials plains. I think it does have the means to support a large population. --Seb 15:20, 26 January 2012 (GMT)

Geography - bis

Steven, I'm curious about where Rath is located exactly? It's in the highlands, I gather, but I cannot pinpoint it. Would you mind showing where it would be? --Seb (talk) 02:14, 4 December 2012 (GMT)